Boro Park Produce Alert

26 Tevet 5771
January 2, 2011

carmel-mangoThe following report was received from a subscriber in the Boro Park area of New York City last week.

“I was just in a fruit store in the Boro Park area, and I saw that they sell cut fruit in small containers. There were pieces of mango mixed in with other fruits.

“I also saw whole mangoes which I wanted to buy. There were mangoes from two different places. One had the CARMEL logo on it.

“I realized that the mixed fruit might have the mango from Israel mixed in. The storekeeper told me that the mangoes do not come from Israel but Carmel distributes them under their name”.

At present, we are uncertain as to the origin of the fruit with the Carmel label. Shoppers should be aware that cut fruit might present a problem relating to Trumos and Ma’asros. JKN advises consulting with local rabbonim.

11 Comments

  • Akiva
    January 2, 2011 - 08:31 | Permalink

    Don’t all of the Israeli agriculture cooperatives receive trumos/masseros removal services by the chief rabbinute? And it’s illegal to export from Israel without going through the cooperatives?

  • David
    January 2, 2011 - 12:57 | Permalink

    If there is a doubt that T’rumot and Ma’asarot are needed, why cannot take without a b’racha to be on the safe side?

    Since the doubt is whether this is produce from e”y (as well as – if it is from e”y whether T & M have been separated), would one need to add mention of this doubt in one’s declaration (for example:- b’mikreh sh’pairot aloo totzeret e”y, ma sh’hu yoter mi 1 b’ 100 …)?

    A more basic question for normal damai (Israeli produce that we do not know whether T & M was or was not taken):- why do we not generally mention the issue of this doubt in the declaration (only concerning ma’aser sheni/ma’aser ani doubt, where relevant) ?

  • Ben
    January 2, 2011 - 15:24 | Permalink

    To David: Contemporary poskim rule that Israeli produce is not demai. This is quite obvious. According to the mishnayos most amei ha’aretz would take T&M. Today that is not true, therefore it isn’t demai.

    To Akiva: I believe that “officially” all produce has T&M taken except for that produce which is designated for export! Maybe they’ve changed their policy, but I haven’t heard so.

  • (Rabbi) Tsvi Rogin
    January 2, 2011 - 15:29 | Permalink

    David:

    You could before making the declaration state that if the fruit does not need taking of terumos and ma’aseros the the declaration is devarim beteilim and not chal, but if you didn’t say it, so what.

    On a more important note: Yu make a huge assumption that just because the rabbanute was supposed to do something, they actually did, and just because the company was supposed to do things in a certain way, that they did.

    They is absolutely no reason to rely on either of these assumptions.

    I have heard, though I have not verified it, that the jaffa orange company actually exports the teruma taken from the fruit used in Israel.

    The concept of a hechsher is to verify. The only two ways to keep kosher is to verify yourself, or to somech only on a hechsher which does not make assumptions, but verifies.

  • January 2, 2011 - 18:08 | Permalink

    Those Mangos are actually from MEXICO being imported by Carmel.

  • Milhouse
    January 3, 2011 - 07:50 | Permalink

    1. Produce that is exported from Israel does not have anything taken from it.

    2. It’s not at all clear that one must take anything from Israeli produce that is imported to chu”l. Why are you assuming such a chiyuv? What’s the worst that can happen if one does not take it?

  • David
    January 3, 2011 - 10:36 | Permalink

    To Milhouse:
    Regarding your point 1, I guess this can only be verified by the exporting company and any Rabbanim that are involved in the kashrut issues.

    Regarding your point 2, this is the first time that I heard what you are saying. Maybe you do have a source, and if so would be interested to hear it.

    With your last question, maybe you are unaware that eating not tithed produce is forbidden, these days Rabbanically. Because in almost all cases – we cannot be absolutely certain if a Jew who has tradition of being a Cohen or Levi is really a Cohen or Levi and the issues of purity that, because of technical issues, cannot be maintained today – the tithed parts are discarded or the sanctity is eventually transferred to a coin of nominal value that is discarded, depending on the type of the tithe.

    Thus the worst that can happen is that one is breaking a Rabbinic law, which most people who care about following the Torah want to avoid unless there are health or danger issues involved that generally override Rabbinic laws.

    To Ben:
    In Israel, I always learned that most fruits and vegetables one finds in a shop that does not have a T & M certificate, should be considered d’mai and one should separate without b’rachot. Usually the only case when one is saying a b’racha when it is your own (or your friends) tree etc., or one is visiting a kibbutz/moshav where your host tells you that the produce he is giving you to take home is tevel (needs separation of tithes).

    To (Rabbi) Tsvi Rogin:
    I do not believe your unverified point, that the jaffa orange company exports teruma. Seems to be one of these statements that are put out by people who want undermine anything that is Zionist. I have heard that it is permissible to give teruma to the zoo for the animals, and this is done. Also the slightly above 0.01 that is taken for teruma does not have to be the best quality but can be that which is any case not marketable quality.

    To Yudel shine:
    You are obviously in the know here, and so this is all not relevant concerning the mangos in the blog.
    But still, if Carmel export from Mexico, then how do we know if my new Mexican company “Al Pairo” that I just created does not export from Israel? If we shop from a non-jewish shop abroad, maybe we can no longer make any assumptions about the status of the fruits and vegetables even if it says “Spain” on the orange?

  • David
    January 3, 2011 - 10:55 | Permalink

    Clarification for my last comment to Yudel shine:
    You are obviously in the know here, and so this discussion is all not relevant concerning the mangos in the blog.

  • Ben
    January 3, 2011 - 16:15 | Permalink

    To David: The reason you take terumos without a bracha is because sometimes it was taken already. For instance, officially the rabbanut takes on all in produce that comes through the main warehouses in Jerusalem. However, many stores buy cheaper through the shuk in Tel Aviv and elsewhere. So you don’t make a bracha because it’s a safek. However, it is not demai. No way.

  • David
    January 4, 2011 - 10:33 | Permalink

    Thank you, Ben, for your clarification that “demai” is not synonymous of being in safek.

  • Moshe
    January 5, 2011 - 13:52 | Permalink

    Don’t forget that fruit from Eretz israel can have problems of Orlah!!!

  • Comments are closed.