Comments on: JKN Teams with RBS (Ramat Beit Shemesh)

By: David

David — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:45:27 +0000

Will you giving this class in Jerusalem?

By: chaim malinowitz

chaim malinowitz — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:11:34 +0000

To clarify:To Josh and dm:
From day one the Shul’s hall has had a rule that kol motzrim badatz is not sufficient,the caterer needs the hashgachah(By the way, the Shul only rents out the space(the hall)to someone making a simchah,the shul has nothing else to do with the affair, and really should take no acharayus at all,just as if you would rent out a room somewhere to someone somewhere….nevertheless,I instituted the rule) .
I do NOT,however, supervise the food or the caterer–I only supervise that indeed the caterer has a hashgachah; people for example who make desserts at home for people,kol motzrim badatz,are NOT allowed to have their desserts at the affair.

By: dm

dm — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:04:46 +0000

josh, I believe that Rav Malinowitz himself addressed this very point during the lecture - (which BTW, Yechiel, was excellent - shkoyach) - and he said that he supervises everything that comes in to the hall.

By: josh

josh — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:45:20 +0000

Yechiel,
How ironic that I recently attended a simcha at the very hall at which you gave your presentation and the caterer’s card distributed at all the tables said “motzarim badatz eida charedis”. Does this hall- at Rav Malinowitz’s shul, allow a caterer in that has no hashgacha???

By: David

David — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:37:08 +0000

Re my comment above to Tzvi (although the subject is really off-topic to the specifics of this article) :- It occurred to me that if the wine is from the Golan, then isn’t the issue of shvi’it less strict?

By: Eli

Eli — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:40:55 +0000

I was inspired by your presentation in RBS last night which made the tricky situation of kosher supervision painfully clear
1)
Many a time I have searched in vain for a mehadrin place to eat when working around the country. Outside Yerushalaim it seems to be almost impossible to find up-to-date information as online restaurant guides seem to be hopelessly out of date . Once in Tel Aviv I searched for a place which it turned out had recently closed down . Why do the certifying authorities not just publish and keep up-to-date an on-line list of establishments which are under their supervision?
2)
It would appear the way to deal with the situation with unsupervised catering and hotels is to raise awareness by getting heavy-weight rabbonim who have the ear of the community to issue a statement on the subject like they have done on internet , kosher phones and the like.

By: David

David — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:17:23 +0000

To Tzvi,
You ask about Otzar Bet Din wine being sold in a normal shop.
I am no Rav (or not even close to being one), but can answer from my observations.

The issue is actually stricter now because all such products should have undergone a biur [= legal annulling process] before Erev Pesach last year.

Despite, this, there are Rabbanim who permit a normal shop to be an extension of Otzar Bet Din, even if the owner is not religious. I assume that the rabbanut would brief the owner about his status of otzar bet din and the sanctity of this stock. Apparently, the law of biur does not apply to otzar bet din.

I doubt such a shop would have mehadrin status, but this issue is (it seems) acceptable to normal Rabbanut.

By: David

David — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:02:36 +0000

Am asking this as someone who generally relies on standard Rabbanut (although if I am by myself I sometimes take preference for a mehadrin alternative).

From what is written here (or maybe not written here), there seems to be something uncomfortable.

1) Ramat Bet Shemesh is considered a charedi shechuna of B. Shemesh, one part extreme charedi and another part possibly “lite charedi” or “grey jacket charedi”(if any better way to generalise a population). I assume that this is talking about the “lite chareidi” section because I doubt that in the extreme chareidi section nothing is settled for, less than badatz aida chareidit.
2) So if lite chareidi only rely on mehadrin hechsherim, and the shops maintain the mehadrin standard that is expected in such circles than what is the problem?
Unless you are saying:
3) There are establishments there, that rely on unauthorized bogus hechsherim.
and/or
4) There are establishments that do not have a formal hechsher at all but because the owners are shomrai mitzvot, people still rely on the kashrut.
5) The mashgichim (of establishments with formal hashgacha) know that all the stuff that comes into the shop needs to have a mehadrin hechsher but do not know more technical details.
6) Are there more potential issues?

I realize that in the article a fine line had to be taken against disparaging a community, but reading _between_ the lines of the article, matters maybe seem to be worst there that they really are. Especially by the tone of what you mention of the “changing around” they need to do there.

So, please could you qualify, and hopefully put matters in a fairer perspective (and I do hope a qualification would do this).

By: Tzvi

Tzvi — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:04:26 +0000

my parents were visiting recently and purchased (unknowingly) some Otzar Beis Din Golani wine.

How is it possible that this would be sold in a store (who’s owner did not appear to be religious)?

By: Loren Spigelman

Loren Spigelman — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 10:20:42 +0000

I was very impressed not only with your extensive knowledge and your well prepared presentation (which must have taken hours), but how you were able to equip the average person to spot the irregularities and make more informed choices without having to become experts themselves. I certainly left with useful information I can apply right away.

Thank you also for recognizing what Rav Malinowitz contributes to his kehilla and the greater community of RBS. You are correct - RBS is a community that is changing things for the better, not only in kashrus but in many aspects of Jewish life in Eretz Yisrael.