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	<title>Comments on: Yad L’Achim Faces Off Against Tnuva</title>
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	<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/</link>
	<description>Reporting on Kashrus in Eretz Yisrael</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Velvet Rudicil</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator>Velvet Rudicil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 14:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=2581#comment-1303</guid>
		<description>Very good blog! I like it! Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good blog! I like it! Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Eliyahu Skoczylas</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliyahu Skoczylas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 20:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=2581#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>I will quote one section from the full Wikipedia article, which mentions one of my Rav's "hot buttons" in saying that Anthroposophy is `Avod`a Zar`a.  From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy#Christ_between_Lucifer_and_Ahriman] :

"Christ between Lucifer and Ahriman

"Lucifer and his counterpart Ahriman figure in anthroposophy as two polar, generally evil influences on world and human evolution. Steiner described both positive and negative aspects of both figures, however: Lucifer as the light spirit which "plays on human pride and offers the delusion of divinity", but also motivates creativity and spirituality; Ahriman as the dark spirit which tempts human beings to "deny [their] link with divinity and to live entirely on the material plane", but also stimulates intellectuality and technology. Both figures exert a negative effect on humanity when their influence becomes misplaced or one-sided, yet their influences are necessary for human freedom to unfold.

"According to anthroposophy, each human being has the task to find a balance between these opposing influences, and each is helped in this task by the mediation of the Representative of Humanity, also known as the Christ being, a spiritual entity who stands between and harmonizes the two extremes."

And if you don't think that believing in two evil elilim and one Yeshka-derived good one representing humanity against them, and having to "find a balance between them," noch, is problematic, then you probably don't even qualify as a Reform Jew!

This is about as far from monotheism, and the Jewish task of tikun `olam, as you can get.  This is not even Zoroastrianism, or other dualist, manichaeistic beliefs, where there are forces of light and darkness, and humans are supposed to support the light.  This is saying that the world is a bone fought over by two big, bad dogs, and an anthroposophist should focus on the Yeshka image to keep a balance between them, so neither dog wins.

You need to talk to an Anthro for some time to get at this stuff.  They try to deny it at first blush, but Yeshka keeps coming up.  When you tell them that belief in Yeshka is X-tianity they argue with you, and say that the Jew-boy on a stick represents a "universal truth."  Then tell them that Jews absolutely don't believe in Yeshka, and therefor this "universal truth" is neither universal nor true, and they will tell you that Yiddin are the force of darkness, or come up with some epikorsus like the Torah is true, but Chazal perverted it to "the Dark Side."

I'm telling you, these people are bad news and two rebbeim I asked both told me they were AKUM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will quote one section from the full Wikipedia article, which mentions one of my Rav&#8217;s &#8220;hot buttons&#8221; in saying that Anthroposophy is `Avod`a Zar`a.  From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy#Christ_between_Lucifer_and_Ahriman] :</p>
<p>&#8220;Christ between Lucifer and Ahriman</p>
<p>&#8220;Lucifer and his counterpart Ahriman figure in anthroposophy as two polar, generally evil influences on world and human evolution. Steiner described both positive and negative aspects of both figures, however: Lucifer as the light spirit which &#8220;plays on human pride and offers the delusion of divinity&#8221;, but also motivates creativity and spirituality; Ahriman as the dark spirit which tempts human beings to &#8220;deny [their] link with divinity and to live entirely on the material plane&#8221;, but also stimulates intellectuality and technology. Both figures exert a negative effect on humanity when their influence becomes misplaced or one-sided, yet their influences are necessary for human freedom to unfold.</p>
<p>&#8220;According to anthroposophy, each human being has the task to find a balance between these opposing influences, and each is helped in this task by the mediation of the Representative of Humanity, also known as the Christ being, a spiritual entity who stands between and harmonizes the two extremes.&#8221;</p>
<p>And if you don&#8217;t think that believing in two evil elilim and one Yeshka-derived good one representing humanity against them, and having to &#8220;find a balance between them,&#8221; noch, is problematic, then you probably don&#8217;t even qualify as a Reform Jew!</p>
<p>This is about as far from monotheism, and the Jewish task of tikun `olam, as you can get.  This is not even Zoroastrianism, or other dualist, manichaeistic beliefs, where there are forces of light and darkness, and humans are supposed to support the light.  This is saying that the world is a bone fought over by two big, bad dogs, and an anthroposophist should focus on the Yeshka image to keep a balance between them, so neither dog wins.</p>
<p>You need to talk to an Anthro for some time to get at this stuff.  They try to deny it at first blush, but Yeshka keeps coming up.  When you tell them that belief in Yeshka is X-tianity they argue with you, and say that the Jew-boy on a stick represents a &#8220;universal truth.&#8221;  Then tell them that Jews absolutely don&#8217;t believe in Yeshka, and therefor this &#8220;universal truth&#8221; is neither universal nor true, and they will tell you that Yiddin are the force of darkness, or come up with some epikorsus like the Torah is true, but Chazal perverted it to &#8220;the Dark Side.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m telling you, these people are bad news and two rebbeim I asked both told me they were AKUM.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1279</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 13:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If the product is not legally (i.e Rabbanut) kosher, then surely they won't stock it in the major supermarkets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the product is not legally (i.e Rabbanut) kosher, then surely they won&#8217;t stock it in the major supermarkets?</p>
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		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1277</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 08:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=2581#comment-1277</guid>
		<description>I don't know whether the particular form of anthrosophy as practised by this kibbutz is or is not avoda zara. I'd be interested in knowing exactly who checked this out as it appears that some forms of anthrosophy are and others are not.

In any event, if all Tenuva are doing is renting space off them, then it would seem this is not a halachic kashrus issue but a hashkafic 'do I want my money to go there' issue. 

People may have the same hashkafic issue with the eida chareidis!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know whether the particular form of anthrosophy as practised by this kibbutz is or is not avoda zara. I&#8217;d be interested in knowing exactly who checked this out as it appears that some forms of anthrosophy are and others are not.</p>
<p>In any event, if all Tenuva are doing is renting space off them, then it would seem this is not a halachic kashrus issue but a hashkafic &#8216;do I want my money to go there&#8217; issue. </p>
<p>People may have the same hashkafic issue with the eida chareidis!</p>
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		<title>By: chello</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1264</link>
		<dc:creator>chello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 21:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>rabbi Skoczyla, 

what do yo suggest i should eat with my shamenet shel pa'am  (do you think blintzes is a good choice or you some other ideas?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rabbi Skoczyla, </p>
<p>what do yo suggest i should eat with my shamenet shel pa&#8217;am  (do you think blintzes is a good choice or you some other ideas?)</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1263</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 20:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What makes Anthroposophy avoda zara?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes Anthroposophy avoda zara?</p>
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		<title>By: Eliyahu Skoczylas</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2010/05/yad-l%e2%80%99achim-faces-off-against-tnuva/comment-page-1/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliyahu Skoczylas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 08:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=2581#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>I would just add that I have personally investigated Anthroposophy, as a friend's brother is involved in it, and I concur with Rav Lifshitz' assessment.  While on the face of it they seem a progressive, moral group, they are in reality committing avoda zara, as was explained to me by several rebbeim when I detailed what I had learned about the group's beliefs and practices.  And they are proselytizing here in Eretz Yisrael.

Anything done to deprive them of parnossa is a good thing.  This is wickedness, and if Tnuva is playing games by sheltering the group with trickery over ownership of the production line, then Tnuva should be punished, as well.

I, for one, will no longer buy Tnuva's "Shel Pa`am" products.  (Since I generally avoid Tnuva, anyway, that is little hardship, although I will admit that the Shamenet Shel Pa`am is the tastiest and closest to American Sour Cream that I've found.  Still, I'd rather give up the flavor than support those wicked people, even by proxy.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would just add that I have personally investigated Anthroposophy, as a friend&#8217;s brother is involved in it, and I concur with Rav Lifshitz&#8217; assessment.  While on the face of it they seem a progressive, moral group, they are in reality committing avoda zara, as was explained to me by several rebbeim when I detailed what I had learned about the group&#8217;s beliefs and practices.  And they are proselytizing here in Eretz Yisrael.</p>
<p>Anything done to deprive them of parnossa is a good thing.  This is wickedness, and if Tnuva is playing games by sheltering the group with trickery over ownership of the production line, then Tnuva should be punished, as well.</p>
<p>I, for one, will no longer buy Tnuva&#8217;s &#8220;Shel Pa`am&#8221; products.  (Since I generally avoid Tnuva, anyway, that is little hardship, although I will admit that the Shamenet Shel Pa`am is the tastiest and closest to American Sour Cream that I&#8217;ve found.  Still, I&#8217;d rather give up the flavor than support those wicked people, even by proxy.)</p>
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