What about a jug of milk in a hotel or restaurant, and you didn’t watch them pour the milk from the sealed commercial milk bottle to the jug?

Then R Moshe goes on to explain that since there is no sofek de’oraisa and we are dealing only with a gezeras Chazal, its application is strictly defined by the parameters Chazal set; if we satisfy their requirements then the milk is permitted, even if it’s not really any safer than unsupervised milk. And he goes on to demonstrate that the gezera only applies to the last goy in the chain of custody. If we have supervised the milk while it was in his possession, we don’t need to worry about the goy who sold it to him, or about any of the goyim who may have owned it before that.

Remember that R Moshe holds that there is no heter to buy milk from a goyishe farmer. Now suppose you’re standing in a country store, and a farmer comes in with an open bucket of milk, which he sells to the storekeeper. The storekeeper pours it into bottles, and puts them in the ice chest for sale. It seems that according to R Moshe this milk is cholov yisroel, because you just supervised it. It was under your eyes from the moment the storekeeper bought it until he sold it to you. What the farmer did before he came in doesn’t matter; Chazal never said anything about that. (Provided, once again, that there is no sofek de’oraysa; if the farmer is not a dairyman at all, but has a few cows and a few horses, then you have no way to know what he milked!)

This is completely wrong, and shows that you have not studied the teshuvos inside. R Moshe explicitly rejects the lenient opinion of the Radbaz and Pri Chodosh, and rules like the Chasam Sofer. If someone buys milk from a goyishe farm, without having seen the milking, R Moshe says there is no heter for that milk, and he does not understand how one can refer to “those who are careful” as if there can be someone who is not.

He then goes on over the course of several teshuvos to expound a chain of reasoning which leads to the conclusion that commercial milk produced by large companies has the din of cholov yisroel, not of cholov akum.

Therefore your continuation: “however many Poskim disagree with Reb Moshe because they question whether the halacha is in accordance with the Pri Chadash” is fatally flawed. Since R Moshe’s opinion is not in any way based on the Pri Chodosh, the fact that the halacha is indeed (according to R Moshe) not like him doesn’t matter. Those who disagree with R Moshe must do so on his own terms, not by associating his opinion with that of the Pri Chodosh.

As for cheese, you are not quite correct when you write: “the halacha for the milk base is identical for cheese as it is for liquid milk, and one who relies on Reb Moshe’s heter for Cholov Stam may use cheese derived from Cholov Stam”. In fact the halacha is not identical, it is more lenient; even one who does not rely on R Moshe for liquid milk may have grounds to rely on him when that milk has been made into cheese. And R Moshe himself, who urged people to be machmir with milk even if it costs extra, said that with cheese one need only be machmir if it’s exactly the same price and no extra bother. This is because, in addition to all the other arguments, one can add Rabbenu Tam’s opinion that cheese made with cholov akum is permitted lechatchila.

First of all it’s not only by older cows. Second, the percentages of procedured cows are 4-6% or higher, therefore there is no Shishim.

Don’t get into an irrelevant discussion Re: Reb Moshe, Chazon Ish or others….

It’s plain CHOLOV TREIF.

Yudel Shain

Rav Eliyashev, shlita agrees with this, I spoke to him last Elul about the issue

In your recent article about Cholov Yisrael etc. it was written;-

“This stringency only applies regarding the actual processing of the cheese,
the halacha for the milk base is identical for cheese as it is for
liquid milk, and one who relies on Reb Moshe’s heter for Cholov Stam
may use cheese derived from Cholov Stam, provided the cheese-making
process was directly under Jewish inspection.”

I think the implication here is that only people who rely on the heter of Chalav Akum can rely on cheese which is kasher Mishaas Asiyah. However, I believe at least in theory there could be those who are machmir about Chalav Yisroel but who would eat cheeses which are Givun Yisroel but only kasher M’shaas Asiya. This is based on the idea (similar to butter) that only tahor milk will coagulate into cheese.

Incidentally, an expert in dairy issues has done some research into this area and has been to India/Mongolia and found that in certain areas non kosher mares milk is collected and can in some cases coagulate. Therefore in reality it wouldn’t be wise to assume that only pure tahor milk coagulates.

Best regards

Gershon

Jaap Sanders:
Yes, the reason for the custom in Holland would be because the aforementioned Pri Chadash was the leading posek in Holland at the time he made his ruling. His decision was based on the fact that in Holland there was very little milk available from non-kosher animals altogether.

O yes, do add Holland to the list of countries where your fascinating and disturbing emails are being read.
Shana tova,

With kind regards,
Jaap Sanders
Amsterdam, Holland
+31-20-6440554