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	<title>Comments on: Another Look at the Shuk</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/</link>
	<description>Reporting on Kashrus in Eretz Yisrael</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Daniel Breslauer</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Breslauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 11:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-56</guid>
		<description>Keep up the good work. Hashem yishmerecho from these thugs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep up the good work. Hashem yishmerecho from these thugs!</p>
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		<title>By: Aliza</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Aliza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 14:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-54</guid>
		<description>By great good fortune I stumbled across your newsletter a couple of months ago and after the shock of discovering how many nonkosher places I was eating at/buying from, my next reaction was gratitude that you take the time to find these things out and share them with those of us who have unwittingly been taken in by these frauds.  I "knew" that many places calling themselves kosher were not, but trying to figure out which were and which weren't was very difficult with the limited Hebrew I have.  I frequently looked at those meaningless, fraudulent signs (and the fact that obviously religious people were buying from those places) and hoped for the best.  Now I understand that the others buying there were probably as clueless as I was--and may have been reassured in their turn that I, obviously religious, was buying there too.  I will make sure that I see (and read!  however much time it takes) the kashrut certificate before I buy anything again. 
 
I don't know who thinks you are making too big a deal over the infractions at the shuk, but I for one am very grateful to you for your trouble.  Please keep up your good work!  I'm looking forward to reading about the kashrut of places at the Central Bus Station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By great good fortune I stumbled across your newsletter a couple of months ago and after the shock of discovering how many nonkosher places I was eating at/buying from, my next reaction was gratitude that you take the time to find these things out and share them with those of us who have unwittingly been taken in by these frauds.  I &#8220;knew&#8221; that many places calling themselves kosher were not, but trying to figure out which were and which weren&#8217;t was very difficult with the limited Hebrew I have.  I frequently looked at those meaningless, fraudulent signs (and the fact that obviously religious people were buying from those places) and hoped for the best.  Now I understand that the others buying there were probably as clueless as I was&#8211;and may have been reassured in their turn that I, obviously religious, was buying there too.  I will make sure that I see (and read!  however much time it takes) the kashrut certificate before I buy anything again. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know who thinks you are making too big a deal over the infractions at the shuk, but I for one am very grateful to you for your trouble.  Please keep up your good work!  I&#8217;m looking forward to reading about the kashrut of places at the Central Bus Station.</p>
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		<title>By: RF</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>RF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-42</guid>
		<description>May the merit of your efforts protect our holy Land of Israel, esp our precious Jerusalem, and all our brethren. 

Seems to be that there are people who protest your criticizing Kashrus "lapses" as being unacceptable defamation of Eretz Yisrael. I would encourage them to understand that this can only ENHANCE our beloved land. We should all remember that we are entitled to this Land only insomuch as  we are dedicated to observing the mitzvas and keeping ourselves a "holy" people, undefiled by objectionable foods or practices. 
I would also like to add that some of the shop keepers may be admirable in many many ways -- but not sufficiently savvy about the latest intricacies of food technology and possible kashrus pitfalls. So even if they are mitzvah observant, they might not know about all the possible problems. 
Furthermore, it is an unfortunate fact of human nature that when profits are threatened, many people are tempted to "cut corners...." even on stuff they would never dream of serving in their own homes....
Not for naught is there a saying, in all realms of consumerism, "Buyer beware!" All the more so when there may be a negative  spiritual impact, for us AND for our beloved Jerusalem and holy Land of Israel....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May the merit of your efforts protect our holy Land of Israel, esp our precious Jerusalem, and all our brethren. </p>
<p>Seems to be that there are people who protest your criticizing Kashrus &#8220;lapses&#8221; as being unacceptable defamation of Eretz Yisrael. I would encourage them to understand that this can only ENHANCE our beloved land. We should all remember that we are entitled to this Land only insomuch as  we are dedicated to observing the mitzvas and keeping ourselves a &#8220;holy&#8221; people, undefiled by objectionable foods or practices.<br />
I would also like to add that some of the shop keepers may be admirable in many many ways &#8212; but not sufficiently savvy about the latest intricacies of food technology and possible kashrus pitfalls. So even if they are mitzvah observant, they might not know about all the possible problems.<br />
Furthermore, it is an unfortunate fact of human nature that when profits are threatened, many people are tempted to &#8220;cut corners&#8230;.&#8221; even on stuff they would never dream of serving in their own homes&#8230;.<br />
Not for naught is there a saying, in all realms of consumerism, &#8220;Buyer beware!&#8221; All the more so when there may be a negative  spiritual impact, for us AND for our beloved Jerusalem and holy Land of Israel&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Yehoshua</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Yehoshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 12:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I just want to point out that there is a very big difference between stores with signs of hekhsherim (not proper te'udot) or expired / photocopied hekhsherim etc., versus places like Uzieli which doesn't have a certificate at all.  I believe Uzi isn't trying to fool anyone.  In fact, I believe that a number of kosher consumers buy there because they KNOW him.  Those who do NOT know him and buy there should learn the halachos in Yoreh De'ah 119 --&gt; indeed, relying on someone you don't know who sells something is *problematic*.  However, if you do know someone, OR you know someone who testifies to a store owner;s kashrus, you CAN eat there.  

For example, there is an organization called The Nachlaot Experience, (http://www.nachlaot.com) which offers Shabbos meals in the neighborhood.  I believe that one needs to pay for the meals.  I, for one, would be absolutely allowed to pay and eat there since I KNOW that the owner's are not chashud; indeed they are Shomer Mitzvos, Yirei Shamayim  However, those who do not know the owners but see on their website that the food is 'mehadrin' do NOT the ability to rely on the Website's claim OR to the fact that the owner's LOOK frum --&gt; similar to Ma'adenei Bina.  This is only in the case if the food is not free.  If the food is free, the case is different.

I urge all of those who are able to look more closely at the mekoros of our chachamim, to see Shulchan Aruch  Yoreh Deah 119 (at least through se'if 7) and the related Sugyos in gemara Avodah Zara 39b, Rambam Ma'achalos Asuros Perek 11 (halacha 26 and surrounding).  The Aruch HaShulchan YD 119 has a particularly clear explanation of these halachos.  I note that the poskim have become more strict over time due to kilkul hadoros and this appears to be proper.  

We definitely see people in the shuk trying to be misleading, but those like Uzieli or http://www.nachlaot.com/ aren't necessarily trying to do the same thing as Chamutzim Yehuda.  I think that a distinction between these cases is proper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to point out that there is a very big difference between stores with signs of hekhsherim (not proper te&#8217;udot) or expired / photocopied hekhsherim etc., versus places like Uzieli which doesn&#8217;t have a certificate at all.  I believe Uzi isn&#8217;t trying to fool anyone.  In fact, I believe that a number of kosher consumers buy there because they KNOW him.  Those who do NOT know him and buy there should learn the halachos in Yoreh De&#8217;ah 119 &#8211;&gt; indeed, relying on someone you don&#8217;t know who sells something is *problematic*.  However, if you do know someone, OR you know someone who testifies to a store owner;s kashrus, you CAN eat there.  </p>
<p>For example, there is an organization called The Nachlaot Experience, (http://www.nachlaot.com) which offers Shabbos meals in the neighborhood.  I believe that one needs to pay for the meals.  I, for one, would be absolutely allowed to pay and eat there since I KNOW that the owner&#8217;s are not chashud; indeed they are Shomer Mitzvos, Yirei Shamayim  However, those who do not know the owners but see on their website that the food is &#8216;mehadrin&#8217; do NOT the ability to rely on the Website&#8217;s claim OR to the fact that the owner&#8217;s LOOK frum &#8211;&gt; similar to Ma&#8217;adenei Bina.  This is only in the case if the food is not free.  If the food is free, the case is different.</p>
<p>I urge all of those who are able to look more closely at the mekoros of our chachamim, to see Shulchan Aruch  Yoreh Deah 119 (at least through se&#8217;if 7) and the related Sugyos in gemara Avodah Zara 39b, Rambam Ma&#8217;achalos Asuros Perek 11 (halacha 26 and surrounding).  The Aruch HaShulchan YD 119 has a particularly clear explanation of these halachos.  I note that the poskim have become more strict over time due to kilkul hadoros and this appears to be proper.  </p>
<p>We definitely see people in the shuk trying to be misleading, but those like Uzieli or <a href="http://www.nachlaot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nachlaot.com/</a> aren&#8217;t necessarily trying to do the same thing as Chamutzim Yehuda.  I think that a distinction between these cases is proper.</p>
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		<title>By: Miriam</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Miriam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 07:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-39</guid>
		<description>I too appreciate seeing the work you're doing in checking out TeUdot and the various Kashrut signs. There are so many different Kashrut emblems out there and many have such small print that it's too easy to mistaken the bogus ones.  Also, there should be an immediate computerized listing in all areas of Kashrut.We should be utilizing the technology in the best interest of following Halacha, not just criticizing the bad information available to users of online websites.  Your postings are a wonderful example of the positive use. Todah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too appreciate seeing the work you&#8217;re doing in checking out TeUdot and the various Kashrut signs. There are so many different Kashrut emblems out there and many have such small print that it&#8217;s too easy to mistaken the bogus ones.  Also, there should be an immediate computerized listing in all areas of Kashrut.We should be utilizing the technology in the best interest of following Halacha, not just criticizing the bad information available to users of online websites.  Your postings are a wonderful example of the positive use. Todah.</p>
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		<title>By: rafael</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>rafael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 07:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-38</guid>
		<description>the price will always tell you as to get a certificate and keep one you must pay and pay .

until dimwitted rabbis agree on a reasonable level of kashrut and it can be nationalized .use your sense and get to know your supplier .

g-d lives in tel-aviv too Eliyahu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the price will always tell you as to get a certificate and keep one you must pay and pay .</p>
<p>until dimwitted rabbis agree on a reasonable level of kashrut and it can be nationalized .use your sense and get to know your supplier .</p>
<p>g-d lives in tel-aviv too Eliyahu</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 04:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-37</guid>
		<description>I think you are doing splendid work and thank you very much for your messirus nefesh in investigating and reporting on the Kashrut situation in Jerusalem. Please ignore the "nay"ers who think you're making a big deal. Your big deal is very much appreciated by me and many of those to whom I forward your newsletters.
Bivracha v'Toda</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are doing splendid work and thank you very much for your messirus nefesh in investigating and reporting on the Kashrut situation in Jerusalem. Please ignore the &#8220;nay&#8221;ers who think you&#8217;re making a big deal. Your big deal is very much appreciated by me and many of those to whom I forward your newsletters.<br />
Bivracha v&#8217;Toda</p>
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		<title>By: yechiel-admin</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>yechiel-admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 11:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-36</guid>
		<description>To the best of my knowledge, none of the legitimate agencies issue a pocket certificate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the best of my knowledge, none of the legitimate agencies issue a pocket certificate.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliezer</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 11:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-35</guid>
		<description>I had my own incident, where when I went to a butcher to purchase chickens, I asked for his teuda. He assured me that it was fine, and when I pushed, he finally pulled some card out of his wallet, which I saw a symbol on there, but I looked too quickly to get the details.

In the end, I just left, I figured it wasn't worth it if it wasn't good.

Is it common to issue a certificate that the store owner can keep in his pocket?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had my own incident, where when I went to a butcher to purchase chickens, I asked for his teuda. He assured me that it was fine, and when I pushed, he finally pulled some card out of his wallet, which I saw a symbol on there, but I looked too quickly to get the details.</p>
<p>In the end, I just left, I figured it wasn&#8217;t worth it if it wasn&#8217;t good.</p>
<p>Is it common to issue a certificate that the store owner can keep in his pocket?</p>
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		<title>By: Eliyahu Skoczylas</title>
		<link>http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/2009/05/another-look-at-the-shuk/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliyahu Skoczylas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 10:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/?p=381#comment-34</guid>
		<description>I greatly applaud your efforts in "exposing" the Machane Yehuda shuk, and have passed your information on to others.  Since you made me aware of it, I have begun checking, also, and been alarmed at the large numbers of shops without proper te`udoth (certificates).  One bakery that I used to shop at has a te`udah up, but when I looked closely I saw that it had expired three years ago!  I have also been treated to shopkeepers pulling out bogus certificates that they otherwise concealed, as you mentioned, but have additionally been cursed at when I question the validity of the supervision or ask them why it's not prominently displayed.

L'kav zchuth, (in alll fairness,) I can only be grateful that at least some guilt and frustration is causing these people to curse at me - at least they are not so far gone as to be brazen and unashamed of their actions; they know that what they are doing is wrong.  An this gives me hope...

I think that if each shop with "irregular" kashrus was to be approached a half dozen times a day by different people who politely take interest, are aware of the issues, and then leave to shop elsewhere, then the owners might wake up and get back on the derech.  Not harsh confrontation, but simply growing in these businessmen the awareness that it IS important, that it DOES matter, that it just makes good business sense to give us consumers what we want - kosher food, clearly supervised.

Or else we can all just live in Tel Aviv, HaShem yishmor (God forbid)! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I greatly applaud your efforts in &#8220;exposing&#8221; the Machane Yehuda shuk, and have passed your information on to others.  Since you made me aware of it, I have begun checking, also, and been alarmed at the large numbers of shops without proper te`udoth (certificates).  One bakery that I used to shop at has a te`udah up, but when I looked closely I saw that it had expired three years ago!  I have also been treated to shopkeepers pulling out bogus certificates that they otherwise concealed, as you mentioned, but have additionally been cursed at when I question the validity of the supervision or ask them why it&#8217;s not prominently displayed.</p>
<p>L&#8217;kav zchuth, (in alll fairness,) I can only be grateful that at least some guilt and frustration is causing these people to curse at me - at least they are not so far gone as to be brazen and unashamed of their actions; they know that what they are doing is wrong.  An this gives me hope&#8230;</p>
<p>I think that if each shop with &#8220;irregular&#8221; kashrus was to be approached a half dozen times a day by different people who politely take interest, are aware of the issues, and then leave to shop elsewhere, then the owners might wake up and get back on the derech.  Not harsh confrontation, but simply growing in these businessmen the awareness that it IS important, that it DOES matter, that it just makes good business sense to give us consumers what we want - kosher food, clearly supervised.</p>
<p>Or else we can all just live in Tel Aviv, HaShem yishmor (God forbid)! <img src='http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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